Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 22:16

Best heeft hier nog een dioramaatje van gemaakt maar ik kan zo snel even geen foto daarvan vinden (Dink?).
Pfft, Dink klinkt als 8) Ik knip me wezenloos...

Afbeelding
https://www.replicarz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BE9605
Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Dat is hem! Dank! Wink! :wink:
Nee joh, deze kwaliteit foto's wil ik niet gekoppeld hebben aan mijn persoontje :wink: Ik bedoel inderdaad die auto's achteraan..
Ik heb er in ieder geval 1 goede foto van, maar ik moet echt even spitten.
Heb hem morgen wel gevonden.
Gaarne! 8)
dit zijn 14 inch magnesium velgen. Spuuglelijk, maar er zijn liefhebbers voor. Heb nog een setje liggen. Ze zijn extreem licht en toch sterk.
Wah mot dah kostuh? Kan nooit veel zijn als je ze zo lelijk vindt... :wink:
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Gebruikersavatar
Schaapm
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Berichten: 922
Lid geworden op: di dec 28, 2004 11:50
Locatie: Voorthuizen
Contacteer: Website

RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 22:22

Brainwave!!!!! gevonden. Wat een k..Tkwaliteit by the way. Zoals je ziet stat er links een nissan , in het midden ook, maar wat er rechts staat? I don't know anymore.

Afbeelding

En onder in beeld? weet ik ook al niet....

Op de motorkap staat geschreven:

...NO
...ipione,
restituire

Zoekplaatje...misschien staat er op het negatief van de foto iets meer...

Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 22:37

Brainwave!!!!! gevonden. Wat een k..Tkwaliteit by the way. Zoals je ziet stat er links een nissan , in het midden ook, maar wat er rechts staat? I don't know anymore.
En onder in beeld? weet ik ook al niet....
En dank! Ik durf zo ook niet te zeggen wat die andere mobielen zijn... ga ik eens op studeren...

De foto wordt in de volgende ronde updates meegenomen op de Nissan Autech Stelvio pagina.

Weet je nog wanneer je ze genomen hebt? Zal rond 1990 geweest zijn?

Voor degenen die het "tjoening" topic categorisch en uit principe vermijden... Gerrit wist dit topic te verrijken met deze Zagato...
Afbeelding
MOOI he? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Het is me nog onbekend welk (1600?) Zaagje hier voor geslachtofferd is....
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Gebruikersavatar
frankalfa
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8056
Lid geworden op: ma dec 27, 2004 20:34
Locatie: Koewacht (of all places!)

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 22:43

Volgens mij zijn die velgen gemaakt door Cromodora (weet het niet helemaal zeker).

Thom
Klopt zitten onder mijn recent gescoorde juul ook (niet lang meer overigens.... =; )

Grtz,fRank

Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 22:46

Klopt zitten onder mijn recent gescoorde juul ook (niet lang meer overigens.... =; )
D'r gaan Ronals onder? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Welke maat zijn die Cromo's?
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Gebruikersavatar
frankalfa
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8056
Lid geworden op: ma dec 27, 2004 20:34
Locatie: Koewacht (of all places!)

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 23:02

Klopt zitten onder mijn recent gescoorde juul ook (niet lang meer overigens.... =; )
D'r gaan Ronals onder? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Welke maat zijn die Cromo's?
Touche Zaag! :lol:

Nee zoals t er nu voor staat komen er tzt revolutions onder ( die 5 spaak dingen waar vroegah het hele SB veld op stond volgens mij)
Crommodora's onder de juul zijn 14 inch en wegen idd nada. Breedte weet ik niet zo uit t bolletje, et ook niet. Dr ligt 185 op dacht ik.

Grtz,fRank

Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

wo jan 28, 2009 23:08

Klopt zitten onder mijn recent gescoorde juul ook (niet lang meer overigens.... =; )
D'r gaan Ronals onder? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Welke maat zijn die Cromo's?
Touche Zaag! :lol:

Nee zoals t er nu voor staat komen er tzt revolutions onder ( die 5 spaak dingen waar vroegah het hele SB veld op stond volgens mij)
Crommodora's onder de juul zijn 14 inch en wegen idd nada. Breedte weet ik niet zo uit t bolletje, et ook niet. Dr ligt 185 op dacht ik.

Grtz,fRank
Laat maar eens weten wat ze moeten kosten dan. :wink:

Remember... ze zijn achtereenvolgens "spuuglelijk" en " =; " dus kan nooit duur zijn... :wink:
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Gebruikersavatar
alfaqv75
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 7446
Lid geworden op: ma jun 13, 2005 17:31
Locatie: Bleiswijk

RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

do jan 29, 2009 12:31

33 type 2 16V carbs & Delta EVO

Historie: Spider QV ‘87, 33 1.4, 147GTA, 156 2ltr, 75 America, 33 16V, 155 2ltr 16V sport, Giulia Squadra Bianca, 75 QV, 33 imola, 75 ts, 33 1.5, 75 ts, 33 16V QV S, 33 16V QV, 33 16V, 33 1.7 8V, 33 1.3S

Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

do jan 29, 2009 12:41

Yeps... het arme beestje... verwaarloosd & verminkt... en toch nog 12.500 Euro moeten opbrengen...
1600 # 267
Afbeelding
:cry:
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Gebruikersavatar
Dinky Boy
Miniaturista
Berichten: 12111
Lid geworden op: ma dec 27, 2004 00:01
Locatie: Groningen
Contacteer: Website

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

do jan 29, 2009 13:11

Voor degenen die het "tjoening" topic categorisch en uit principe vermijden... Gerrit wist dit topic te verrijken met deze Zagato...
Afbeelding
MOOI he? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Het is me nog onbekend welk (1600?) Zaagje hier voor geslachtofferd is....
Met bijpassend muziekje 8)

Gebruikersavatar
AR110AF
Member
Member
Berichten: 208
Lid geworden op: di sep 12, 2006 12:40
Locatie: Liege - Belgium

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

do jan 29, 2009 14:59

Dat moet hem inderdaad wel zijn... Ik had geen foto's van TZ # 009 in deze uitvoering maar het beruchte boek is in dit geval correct... Het kenteken komt overeen met wat er bekend is van 009.
Yep, and I have somewhere a couple of pictures of the Tiger barchetta it became in the early 70s. There's also a funny car that appeared in the French Retroviseur a few years ago claiming #009 :lol: It is the car illustrated it the "famous" book under 009 - strangely enough!

De # 41 in deze foto is geindentificeerd als zijnde TZ-2 # 750110.
De auto hield het 217 ronden lang vol met Roberto Bussinello & Jean Rolland aan het stuur... toen liepen de krukaslagers er uit...
I'm not sure on what ground you identify LM #41 UD105338 with the later UD111833 #110. Close observation of the LM cars reveals details not to be found on any later car and the registrations from Fibreglass TZ1s were no longer used, so your hypothesis is well possible, but not to be drawn from the LM documentation.
Over # 42 is nog geen uitsluitsel maar als ik deze foto zie, ook genomen op Le Mans 1965:
Afbeelding
dan lijkt ie wel HEEL erg op TZ-2 # 750112 op deze foto (hoewel de luchthappers aan de zijkant niet overeen komen):
Afbeelding
# 42 hield het maar 22 ronden lang vol (met "Geki" aan het stuur), toen maakte een kapotte olieleiding reeds een eind aan de pret... Arme Carlo Zuccoli kwam niet eens aan sturen toe...

[...] Welk chassisnummer deze # 43 had? Dat is nog altijd niet bekend...
Here I cannot agree. Car #43 is #112, with the aluminium body, the prototype that raced at Monza and Targa Florio earlier, with Prova plates. Here (LM) it's registered UD100953 and is still painted orange, where the two new cars (fibre bodies) were red. Apart for the colour, an unique feature of #112 is the lack of wiper fairing, to be seen on the early pictures, at LM, and even today after restoration.

Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

do jan 29, 2009 16:58

Yep, and I have somewhere a couple of pictures of the Tiger barchetta it became in the early 70s. There's also a funny car that appeared in the French Retroviseur a few years ago claiming #009 :lol: It is the car illustrated it the "famous" book under 009 - strangely enough!
Was it you who wrote somewhere how remarkably kind the Sicilian climate is to old bodies and how they miraculously reappear in their old shape with all distinctive features (like airscoops etc) just a couple of inches away from their original location despite the original body having been destroyed in the early 1970's? :wink:
I'm not sure on what ground you identify LM #41 UD105338 with the later UD111833 #110. Close observation of the LM cars reveals details not to be found on any later car and the registrations from Fibreglass TZ1s were no longer used, so your hypothesis is well possible, but not to be drawn from the LM documentation.
From the info that I accumulated:
# 750110 used the registration number of # 750108 (Fiberglass TZ-1) UD105338 for the 1965 Le Mans race most probably for customs carnet reasons as # 750110 did not have its own registration yet at that time
# 750110 raced again in 1965 (Trento - Bordone), this time with the registration from Fiberglass TZ-1 # 750109 (UD105339) which had been crashed and destroyed by Jean Rolland in practice for the Nurburgring 1000 KM. For this purpose, # 750110 was ALSO stamped (not REstamped) # 750109 and still carries both numbers today.
After this race, # 750110 received its own registration UD111833 still in 1965

The double stamping lead Marcello Minerbi to wrongfully allocating this picture to # 750109 in his 1984 book:
Afbeelding
(You don't expect a second number if you find 1...)
Incorrect as # 750109 was a Fiberglass TZ-1
Was it this error that gave rise to the idea that # 750109 had miraculously turned into a TZ-2 which has now surfaced in Hong-Kong (a.k.a. the Brussels of the Far East... :lol: ) after having been in hiding for nearly 30 years? 8)

So far, I have only been able to link UD105338 to # 750108 and # 750110.

Absolute proof that # 41 is indeed # 750110? Nope... Will that ever come? I doubt it...

As always, I gladly stand corrected!

Have you ever contacted the ACO to see if we could draw from their files?
Here I cannot agree. Car #43 is #112, with the aluminium body, the prototype that raced at Monza and Targa Florio earlier, with Prova plates. Here (LM) it's registered UD100953 and is still painted orange, where the two new cars (fibre bodies) were red. Apart for the colour, an unique feature of #112 is the lack of wiper fairing, to be seen on the early pictures, at LM, and even today after restoration.
I guess you have a (very good!) point there.
Later pictures from when Alec Mildren ran the car in Australia also show the lack of wiper fairing...

I am still struggling to complete the picture of the 1965 Le Mans race...

I only have two color pictures of the # 42 & # 43 cars at Le Mans and they both look to be orange... could be that the color tone is off due to the age of the photos, scanner or monitor settings etc.:
# 42:
Afbeelding
# 43:
Afbeelding
According to my information, all TZ-2's were painted red for Le Mans...

During the race:
Afbeelding
(is it me or does the hood appear to be "dented" under the "2" and above the grill? If so... aluminum hood?)
Afbeelding

This picture shows the whole Alfa contingent lined up in the pits with at least # 42 & # 42 still lacking the extra cooling ducts shown in the race photo's above...
Afbeelding

Your explanation for # 43 being # 750112 seems more than plausible which leaves the questions:
Is there a way to "fix" # 750110 to being # 41?
Which one is # 42?

BTW, # 43 (750112) raced at Le Mans with registration UD100953 which according to Ben Hendriks (1992) belonged to Fiberglass TZ-1 (I know you hate the TZ-1 name but I'll go with Doug Nye and use it as "retrospective nomenclature for the sake of clarity" :wink: ) # 750107... Again a customs matter?

I believe we all agree that the # 44 TZ-1 is # 750041 of Nicolas Koob
Afbeelding
which also ran in the 1965 Spa 500 KM race along with the two Walker Day cars and in which Tony Hegbourne was killed (in # 750073?)?
Afbeelding
In the background, the white # 51 (# 750041) of Nicolas Koob, the grayish car to the right should be # 50 (# 750036) of Gustave Gosselin and the remaining # 52 & # 53 being the two Walker Day cars (# 750073 & # 750053 respectively) of Tony Hegebourn and Boley Pittard, both with their distinctive 5-slot bonnets, missing moustaches and missing indicator lights...
# 52:
Afbeelding
# 53:
Afbeelding

# 750073 seems to be pretty clear given its history of being delivered through Alfa UK (bar its miraculous resurrection when it took part in the 2000 Targa Florio Revival after having been destroyed in 1965 after Hegbourne's accident...).

The other car, possibly # 750053, is more difficult as that one was apparently supplied new in Switzerland...

I also read about # 750043 possibly being the second Walker Day car... would you have more on that?

Zo, dat was weer een behoorlijke exercitie "Hoe moeilijk kan het zijn? Nou.. ZO moeilijk dus!" Dank u, Autodelta! 8)
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Gebruikersavatar
AR110AF
Member
Member
Berichten: 208
Lid geworden op: di sep 12, 2006 12:40
Locatie: Liege - Belgium

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - 11 erbij! - 451

do jan 29, 2009 17:44

Yep, and I have somewhere a couple of pictures of the Tiger barchetta it became in the early 70s. There's also a funny car that appeared in the French Retroviseur a few years ago claiming #009 :lol: It is the car illustrated it the "famous" book under 009 - strangely enough!
Was it you who wrote somewhere how remarkably kind the Sicilian climate is to old bodies and how they miraculously reappear in their old shape with all distinctive features (like airscoops etc) just a couple of inches away from their original location despite the original body having been destroyed in the early 1970's? :wink:
Yes, indeed, Italy is land of miracles, and some person who is close to presenting himsalf as "god" might not be such, yet capable of accomplishing pretty nice miracles. That qualifies for becoming saint... :lol:
# 750110 used the registration number of # 750108 (Fiberglass TZ-1) UD105338 for the 1965 Le Mans race most probably for customs carnet reasons as # 750110 did not have its own registration yet at that time
# 750110 raced again in 1965 (Trento - Bordone), this time with the registration from Fiberglass TZ-1 # 750109 (UD105339) which had been crashed and destroyed by Jean Rolland in practice for the Nurburgring 1000 KM. For this purpose, # 750110 was ALSO stamped (not REstamped) # 750109 and still carries both numbers today.
After this race, # 750110 received its own registration UD111833 still in 1965
If they played games with reg for customs and scrutineering at LM, and self evidently they did, why should they bother to swap again false reg plates around for bringing a car to a hillclimb in Italy? I mean that it's a sensible guess to think that the car that had **38 at LM should be the same wearing again **38 at Trento.
The double stamping lead Marcello Minerbi to wrongfully allocating this picture to # 750109 in his 1984 book
Yes, and probably Ben Hendrickx had not understood that confusion when he later commented that 109 had strangely disappeared... But did you notice the strange, oversize bulge in the centre of the bonnet on the pics in Minerbi's book? Made me thinking...
Have you ever contacted the ACO to see if we could draw from their files?
No, but I should try to ask persons who have had access to the files.

I only have two color pictures of the # 42 & # 43 cars at Le Mans and they both look to be orange... could be that the color tone is off due to the age of the photos, scanner or monitor settings etc.
You are right here. probably a pretty light shade of red, whose rendering on film is plain orange!
(is it me or does the hood appear to be "dented" under the "2" and above the grill? If so... aluminum hood?)
Not sure, but possible. I rmember a comment from the former owner of one TZ2 (I have not the reference at hand) saying that his former car had an aluminium hood. But it is hard to tell whether it's a dent or a shade.
Your explanation for # 43 being # 750112 seems more than plausible which leaves the questions:
Is there a way to "fix" # 750110 to being # 41?
Which one is # 42?
So far I have been unable to spot details which could help identifying the two remaining LM cars in later stages, leading thus to id the chassis number as known today (bearing in mind that the chassis number declared at LM scrutineering should logically fit the paperwork, thus those cars should also have double numbering: the "fake' for LM65, and a new one for the car known identity).
BTW, # 43 (750112) raced at Le Mans with registration UD100953 which according to Ben Hendriks (1992) belonged to Fiberglass TZ-1 (I know you hate the TZ-1 name but I'll go with Doug Nye and use it as "retrospective nomenclature for the sake of clarity" :wink: ) # 750107... Again a customs matter?
I'm not a taleban, and I won't make fuss about apocryphal "TZ1" moniker...

And #112 raced ealier in Italy either woithout any reg (Monza) or with a Prova one (TF)
[...] the grayish car to the right should be # 50 (# 750036) of Gustave Gosselin
There's a colour pic of it, rather champagne if I recall well, in Alfissimo by D.Owen

Gebruikersavatar
Rudolph
Guru
Guru
Berichten: 1592
Lid geworden op: ma apr 24, 2006 14:10
Locatie: Siracusa (SR)

RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - Le Mans 1965 - 451

do jan 29, 2009 18:09

PLOEF !
Laatst gewijzigd door Rudolph op do mei 13, 2010 18:48, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.

Registro storico Alfa Romeo 155 Superturismo
Socio della Scuderia del Portello

Gebruikersavatar
Zaagauto
Guru Quintuplo
Guru Quintuplo
Berichten: 8225
Lid geworden op: di apr 04, 2006 03:21
Locatie: Right smack down in the middle of my own universe...
Contacteer: Website

Re: RE: Alfa Zagato Registers - Le Mans 1965 - 451

do jan 29, 2009 18:15

Nice Bizza!

Afbeelding
Should be chassis number B0207 ?
Patina: Roest, gezien door ogen van iemand met poetsfobie...

Terug naar “Alfa Romeo, heden, verleden en toekomst”